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Chelsea Old Church, Wednesday, 19 March, 2025 Photo available for reuse under this Creative Commons licence. |
John Green (bap. 8 Mar 1730 at Chelsea Old Church) son of William and Sarah Green, married Mary Pritzler (b. 15 Oct 1738, bap. 5 Nov 1738 at St John's Church, Wapping), daughter of Christian Pritzler, Sugar Baker, and Mary Woodard, at Chelsea Old Church, a.k.a. All Saints on 13 Aug 1760.
Jonathan Green, in his history of George Green, dated November 2018, has fallen into the trap laid by various inaccurate transcripts of these records, which claim the event: baptism, marriage or burial took place at St Luke's, Chelsea, which is impossible as that church was not built until 1824.
John Green's father, William Green, was listed as an Overseer of the Poor of Chelsea and the owner of the Lotts Brewery of Chelsea. There is even the well-known Lots Road in Chelsea, but there is surprisingly zero history online regarding this. The only possible mention I've seen is, "By 1729 William Green of Fulham, brewer, had built a brewhouse and other buildings on 2 acres which lay on the south side of King's Road at Stanley Bridge." [Source] Again from Jonathan Green's history, "The Greens had been longstanding brewers in Chelsea and Westminster. In 1682 George’s great-grandfather, John, had sold a ten acre meadow beside the river for £550 to the Commissioners of the Royal Hospital to form the riverside area of the Royal Hospital site."
As far as I can tell, the following children could belong to this couple:
- William Green bap. 8 Aug 1761, buried 1 Sep 1761 in Chelsea
- Maria Susanna Green bap. 23 May 1763, buried 12 Jul 1763 in Chelsea
- John Green bap. 29 Oct 1764 in Chelsea, purported to have died in 1786 "At Sea", Sulawesi Tengah, Indonesia (not seen primary source)
- Ann Green bap. 1 Apr 1766 in Chelsea
- George Green said to be b. 2 Nov 1767, the bap. 9 Dec 1767 in Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, thus appears to relate
- Mary Green bap. 11 Apr 1769 in Cheshunt, Hertfordshire
- Charlotte Green bap. 18 Nov 1770 in Cheshunt, Hertfordshire
- Susannah Green bap. 3 Jan 1772 in Cheshunt, Hertfordshire
All of the above are listed as the children of John and Mary Green.
Johnathan Green says that, "Of their six children, four died young, leaving George and his younger sister Mary, born in 1769." It hasn't been possible to work out what happened to Ann, although it is claimed here she was buried in Liverpool in 1776, but died in 1792. My feeling is that she would certainly have expired a lot sooner, incarcerated in a coffin, with presumably no food and water for 16 years, but what do I know? There is a chance that Charlotte and Susannah don't belong, or maybe also died as infants, but I'd rather include them as possible. In the case of Susannah, there's additional reason to do so, I feel, because John Green had an elder sister named Susanna.
That George Green was born in Cheshunt, is stated in the Chronicles of the Blackwall Yard (PDF) by Henry Green and Robert Wigram, published in 1881. Although over 100 years after the event, we have to trust was likely to have been based on fact. The family could have had a 'country seat' in Cheshunt, but I find it curious that there appears no mention nor evidence of such.
Obviously (?) it's Mary Green b. 1769 who is thought to be the second wife of John Perry, said to have married 'Green's sister' and she's exactly the right age, but I still call that into doubt, because the Mary who married John Perry was a widow, therefore Green was her previous married name, not her maiden name. My theory is that she was more likely the widow of John Green b. 1764, who, as a sister-in-law, would have been considered a sister. While I cannot prove or disprove it (I was hoping to find clues from this research, but just found more inconsistencies), I shall probably die on this hill.
Elsewhere, it is claimed that it was Maria Susanna Green who married John Perry. Quite apart from having been dead from around the age of 2 months, was, while baptised in 1763, supposedly not born until 1771. They managed to notice that the person was a widow upon marriage, but clearly without coming to the realisation that would mean she wasn't born Green.
There is one tree claiming that Mary Green, the daughter of John Green and Mary Pritzler, died as an infant of one year old, which fact would help support my theory. However, the claimed burial, for which they offer no source and I cannot find one either, in Nov 1770, is purportedly in Wing, Buckinghamshire, some ~45 miles from Cheshunt, which seems incredibly unlikely.
When did John Green die? There seem to be as many people claiming he died in 1772 as there are suggesting it was 1776. There's no burial record in Cheshunt in 1772. There IS a burial, once more claimed to be at the as-yet-then-not-built St Luke's (therefore, must be at Chelsea Old Church) of a John Green on 29 May 1772. Bingo? Not so fast. There is a page for the burial claiming it to be of John Green, son of William and father of George Green, at Findagrave that still claims the burial is at St Luke's, so I'm not surprised that the photo request hasn't been fulfilled and am certain that the page was created, not from an actual grave, but from the burial record above. So, I had a look at the original burial record. Yes, it is the burial of a John Green. It even sounds like a 'quite important' position (as befits such a 'famous' brewer of the parish), as it details, "Head 21 feet from the back of the Vestry. Side 12 feet from North wall of the Church." There's just one problem. The church official has been very kind to put ages in brackets after the names on the page. It's round years for adults and a number and 'm' for infants. This burial is for an infant, because alongside in brackets, is (11m) for months.
(Not to mention that the aforesaid burial page links to another, which claims that John Green's father, William Green, died at the age of two.)
Elsewhere, a burial on 2 Apr 1772, in Prestbury, Cheshire is cited. Full marks for that being the burial of John Green whose father is listed as William Green. But ignoring that the same page claims he died in Cheshunt, in 1776, and the unlikely location, if a deceased's father is listed on a burial record, it can be guaranteed that this again is the burial of an infant.
Despite copious digging (pun intended) I can find no convincing burial for our John Green in either Chelsea, or Cheshunt, neither in 1772, nor 1776. There also exists the possibility that he was buried in or near Westminster. Or Timbuktu for that matter. Wherever and whenever, there are just too many people named John Green to nail it down with absolute certainty.
There is a Will and Probate for a John Green in 1772. It begins, "This is the last Will and Testament of John Green of West Smithfield City of London (You might call that far west in the City 'Westminster' if you wanted to be posh.) Brewer (I will admit that the word 'Brewer' is indistinct, but the word seems to be the same shape as on documents pertaining to John Brown, who was also a brewer) made this 28th day of [unreadable] in the year of our lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy two." But then he mentions "my dear wife Elizabeth Green". Was that a simple error? Was he drunk? Had he committed bigamy? Any of those are possible, or else this is not the right person. It goes on to mention a sister Elizabeth Green and a brother Thomas Green, as well as children (not by name). The Will was proved on 20 Jun 1772. Nevertheless, I really can't say whether this relates or not.
Referring back to Jonathan Green's history, which again points to John's death being in 1772 (doesn't say where), he states that "extravagant living by John and his partner and nephew, Pitt Burnaby Green, saw the brewery and all its public houses sink under a mountain of mortgages".
After John's death, it is said that his widow Mary moved her family to Battersea. Jonathan Green says that, "Mary Green, with her two young children, went to live in Dulwich". OK, what's 5.7 miles? Of course, we do not have the luxury of census returns to cross refer anything in this period, so it is very difficult to be sure of any of the details. Do we actually know she went to Battersea with two children? We only have the reference that George Green was with his mother there, because in the Chronicles of the Blackwall Yard, we are told that George Green, when apprenticed, "was in the habit of frequently walking from his mother's house, near Battersea, to Blackwall Yard". Land Tax Records place Mrs Mary Pritzler, Mary's mother, in Battersea in the 1780's. (Mary Pritzler, then a Mantua Maker, had taken an apprentice in 1747; then after her husband died, she appeared, from 1755, in directories as a sugar baker still in Wellclose Square (The Lost Squares Of Stepney), presumably taking over his business. Mary Pritzler (née Woodard) died, aged 80, in 1790 and was buried in the vaults at St Mary's Church, Battersea.)
Of Mary Green (née Pritzler)'s burial on 16 Feb 1818, with her age at death correctly listed as 80, I am finally confident. Most likely, this was arranged by her son George Green. Once again the transcript at Ancestry cannot be relied upon, claiming that the burial was at All Saints Church, Poplar - this church wasn't built until 1821-23 - but on the original record is clearly written Chapel Poplar (Poplar Chapel, St Matthias Old Church), that was built by the East India Company and used frequently by the Perry family.