Inherited Craziness
A place to share all the nuts found on my family tree

Showing posts with label Palmer. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Palmer. Show all posts

Saturday 9 March 2024

Edward Oxford Palmer and Charlotte Emma Gloyne

The Melbourne Inn, Plymouth
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Derek Harper - geograph.org.uk/p/1777650
This pub on the corner of Cecil Street (left) and Wyndham Street, with its green glazed tiles, one of the toughest pubs in Plymouth, has been recommended for listing. Originally built in the 1700s, this Stonehouse pub was later named after British Prime Minister Lord Melbourne.

Edward Oxford Palmer, Seaman, son of Charles Palmer and Mary Oxford, married Charlotte Emma Gloyne, daughter of Samuel Pascoe Gloyne and Emma Jane Coombes at the The Church of the Holy Trinity on 9 Mar 1873. (The church was destroyed during the Blitz in 1941 and demolished.)

The couple had one child:
  1. Charles Edward Samuel Palmer b. 9 Sep 1874 (GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 248), bap. 4 Oct 1874, in the Parish of Charles, Plymouth. (Charles Church was destroyed during the night of March 21st/22nd 1941.) The family's address was 8 Devonshire Street, Plymouth and Edward's profession was again listed as Seaman.
Edward Oxford Palmer, born 31 May 1844, had enlisted in the Royal Navy on 25 Apr 1859, shortly before his 15th birthday, as a Boy 2nd Class. At that time he was 5 ft and ½ inch, with a Fresh complexion, Light brown hair and Grey eyes. He had a scar on the left side of his chin and weighed 110 lbs. The ship on which he entered service was HMS Impregnable. He remained in the service until 1882, achieving the rank of Petty officer first class.

In 1881, living at 67, Cecil Street, Plymouth, were Edward Palmer (36) Quarter master royal navy; Charlotte Palmer (27) and son Charles Palmer (6).

Although, in 1891, Edward O Palmer (46) General Labourer was living in Roath, Cardiff, Wales, with Charlotte A Palmer (36) and son Charles (16) Fitter's Apprentice. (Charlotte's sister Emma Jane married in Roath.)

By 1901, the family had returned to Plymouth and were living in Alexandra Road, Ford, Devonport, with Edward Palmer (56) General Labourer; Charlotte Palmer (46), Charles Palmer (26) Steam Engine Fitter and Emma Gloyne (74) Widow, Former Monthly Nurse, Charlotte's mother in the household.

In 1902, son Charles Edward Palmer married Alice Amy Gamblen.

In 1911 and still living in Devonport, were Edward O Palmer (66) Naval Pensioner and Charlotte Palmer (56). Son, Charles Palmer (36) Engine Fitter at Government Dockyard, was also living in Devonport, with wife Alice Palmer (36) and Cyril Gamblen (5), inexplicably listed as a Niece (not Nephew). 

Edward Oxford Palmer died in 1913, aged 69. (GRO Reference: 1913 D Quarter in DEVONPORT Volume 05B Page 392.)

(Then Edward and Charlotte's son, Charles Edward Palmer also died, on 17 Apr 1915, aged just 40 (GRO Reference: 1915 J Quarter in DEVONPORT Volume 05B Page 444). Probate was granted to Alice Palmer on 8 Jun 1915. The couple do not appear to have had any children. Alice Amy Palmer does not appear to have remarried and is listed in Plymouth in 1921 and again in 1939. She died, in Plymouth, in 1969, in what will have been her 95th year.)


Charlotte Palmer died, at 75, in 1930. (GRO Reference: 1930 M Quarter in EAST STONEHOUSE Volume 05B Page 401.)

Thursday 7 December 2023

Edmund Drake and Esther Elizabeth Palmer


Plymouth : Plymouth Gin Distillery
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Lewis Clarke - geograph.org.uk/p/1185248
The Plymouth Gin Distillery (the Black Friars Distillery) is the only gin distillery located in Plymouth in what was once a Dominican Order monastery built in 1431 and opens on to what is now Southside Street. It has been in operation since 1793.

Edmund Drake (b. 7 Oct 1832), Seaman, upon marriage, said he was the son of Edmund Drake, Tailor (actually he was the illegitimate son of Mary Drake, Tailoress), first married Eliza Dixon at the Parish church, Stoke Damerel on 17 Nov 1857. Their son, Edmund George Drake was born on 21 Jan 1858 (1858 M Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 285) and baptised at Stoke Damerel on 4 Feb 1858. However, Eliza Drake died in that same quarter, aged 22 (GRO Ref: 1858 M Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 231).

Edmund Drake, Widower, Seaman, then married Esther Elizabeth Palmer, daughter of Charles Palmer and Mary Amelia Oxford at Holy Trinity Church, Plymouth on 7 Dec 1860. (The Anglican Church of the Holy Trinity was in Southside Street/Friars Lane, The Barbican, Plymouth. It no longer exists.) Edmund Drake gave his address at this time as HMS Jason (1859).

Edmund and Esther had at least a further six children:
  1. Edward Charles Drake b. 1861 S Qtr in PLYMOUTH Vol 05B Page 239
  2. Florence Esther Drake b. 1867 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 252. Died, aged 1, in 1869 S Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 181. Buried at Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
  3. Mary Amelia Drake b. 1869 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Vol 05B Page 247
  4. Edith Esther Drake b. 1873 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Vol 05B Page 239
  5. Annie Eliza Drake b. 1875 J Qtr in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 342
  6. Eliza Ellen Drake b. 1876 S Qtr in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 329. Died, aged 1, in 1877 S Qtr in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 200
In 1861, Edmund and Esther Drake aren't listed anywhere, however, Edmund Drake (3), Edmund's son from his first marriage, was boarding with Charles and Mary Palmer, Esther's parents, in Vauxhall Street, Plymouth.

In 1865, there is a record of Shipping agreements and crew lists, suggesting that Edmund Drake (32), birthplace Jersey, was serving on a Merchant ship named Hantoon that departed from Wexford, Ireland.

In 1871, Esther Drake (35) was in Vauxhall Street, Charles, Plymouth, with [Edmund] George Drake (13), Edward Drake (9), Mary Drake (1) and her brother, James Palmer (31) Porter. Edmund was presumably at sea.

In 1881, Edmund Drake (48) Coal Tipper was a boarder in the household of William Brooks (31) Railway Guard at 6, Inchmarnock Street, Roath, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales. Edmund Drake was listed as being from Plymouth, Devon, which is probably, simply, what his landlord assumed. Meanwhile, Esther Drake (44) Sailor's Wife, was then residing at 27, Rendle Street, Plymouth with her son Edward Drake (19) Iron Moulder; Mary Drake (11), Edith Drake (7), Annie Drake (5) and Alfred Nelson (1) Boarder.

In 1891, Edmund Drake (59) Pensioner from Jersey, Channel Islands, was living at 10, Moira Street, Cardiff with Esther Drake (56), Edward Drake (28) Iron Moulder; Mary Drake (21); Edith Drake (19); Annie Drake (16); Emma Drake (29) and granddaughters, Esther Drake (3) and Gladys Drake (1).

In 1901, Edmund Drake (69) Boxman Coal Tipper from St Helier, Jersey, was living at 12, Seymour Street, Roath, Cardiff, with wife Esther Drake (65) and granddaughter, Esther Drake (13).

Esther Elizabeth Drake died at 72 in 1907 S Qtr in CARDIFF Vol 11A 149.

In 1911, Edmund Drake (80) Widowed, Father-in-law from St Helier, Jersey, was living in the household of Fred and Annie Silby at 30 Romilly Road, Cardiff. (Annie Silby, of course, being Annie Eliza Drake, as was.)

In 1921, Edmund Drake (90) Widower, Father-in-law, Able Seaman Retired HM Navy, from Jersey, Channel Islands, was still living with his daughter and son-in-law, Fred and Annie Silby, at 67, Forrest Road, Cardiff.

Edmund Drake died at 91 in 1922 M Qtr in CARDIFF Vol 11A Page 707.

Saturday 26 August 2023

John Palmer and Esther Collins

Winchester - St John The Baptist Church
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Chris Talbot - geograph.org.uk/p/2386190r

John Palmer (b. 1777) married Esther Collins (bap. 15 Aug 1790 at St Bartholomew's Church, Winchester), daughter of Benjamin Collins and Mary Heamer, at St. John the Baptist Church, Winchester on 26 Aug 1811

John and Esther Palmer, it seems, had at least these four children:
  1. Charles Palmer b. 12 Jul 1812, bap. 24 Jul 1812 at St Mary's Church, Hinckley, Leicestershire. As unlikely as that location seems, on the 1851 census, Charles' birthplace is listed as 'Ionkley, Lancashire', which could be a mis-transcription of Hinckley, Leicestershire. 
  2. James Palmer bap. 16 Sep 1821 at St Andrew's Church, Plymouth
  3. Elizabeth Palmer bap. 25 Nov 1827 at St Andrew's Church, Plymouth
  4. Henry Palmer bap. 18 Jul 1830 at St Andrew's Church, Plymouth
On James', Elizabeth's and Henry's baptisms, John's occupation is Tanner.

It's extremely likely there were other children born between those, but it's difficult to confirm, not knowing when or where and being too early for them appear on census returns together as a family for confirmation. 

In 1841, John Palmer (60) was living in York Street, Plymouth (as was son Charles, in a separate household), with Esther Palmer (50), Elizabeth Palmer (14) and Henry Palmer (11). There is a James Palmer (20), resident at Plymouth Citadel, in 1841, but I cannot be absolutely sure.

In 1851, John Palmer (75) Tanner, from Bridestowe, Devonshire and Esther Palmer (61), from Winchester, Hampshire were in Richmond Street, Plymouth.

John Palmer died, aged 78, in 1855 M Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 251. He is buried at Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.

In 1861, Esther Talmer (sic) Tanner's mother, widowed, from Winchester, Hampshire, was living in Vauxhall Street, Plymouth in the household of her son Charles - who it appears has taken over the trade from his father.

Esther Palmer died, aged 79, in 1868 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 145. She is also buried at Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.

Friday 4 August 2023

William Palmer and Henrietta Crabb

St Cecilia, Little Hadham, Herts
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © John Salmon - geograph.org.uk/p/362901

William Palmer (b. 6 Feb 1793 in Bishop's Stortford), son of William Palmer and Mary Sanders, married Henrietta Crabb (bap. 2 May 1800 in Little Hadham), daughter of James Crabb and Keziah Bocock at St Cecilia, Little Hadham on 24 Jun 1823. They were married by Licence and with the consent of James Crabb, even though Henrietta would have been over twenty-one.

They had six children, baptised at St Michael’s Church, Bishop's Stortford:

  1. William Palmer bap. 4 Jul 1824. (Died in 1867.)
  2. John Sanders Palmer bap. 4 Sep 1825. (Buried 27 Nov 1825.)
  3. Martha Palmer bap. 4 May 1828 
  4. John Smyth Palmer bap. 27 Oct 1831. (Buried 30 Aug 1835.)
  5. Mary Henrietta Palmer bap. 4 Dec 1835. (Died at 30 in 1865.)
  6. Amelia Palmer b. 1841 D Quarter in BPS STORTFORD Volume 06 Page 461, bap. 15 Oct 1841.
On the first five baptisms, William Palmer's occupation is listed as Stationer. On Amelia's baptism, William is described as a Bookseller. The GRO birth registration for Amelia confirms her mothers maiden name as CRABB.

In 1841, William Palmer (44) was listed in Bridge Street, Bishop's Stortford with Henrietta Palmer (36), William Palmer (15), Mary Palmer (4), Susannah Perrin (20), Jane Judd (15), William Hopkins (20) and Elizabeth Palmer (20). With relationships not detailed on the 1841 Census, we can only surmise that some of these were servants, shop assistants or visitors.

Henrietta Palmer died, at 43, in 1844 S Quarter in BISHOPS-STORTFORD Vol 06 Page 299 and was buried, at St Michael’s Church on 24 Sep 1844.

In 1851, William Palmer (58) Tallow Chandler Employing 4 Men & Shopkeeper, Widower was still in Bridge Street with William Palmer (26), Martha Palmer (22), Mary H Palmer (15), Amelia Palmer (9), Sarah Nichols (22) General Servant and Mary A Hammond (20) General Servant.

William Palmer Jnr married Eliza Skinner in Q1 1857, in Bishop's Stortford, but Eliza Palmer died, at 35, in 1858 J Quarter in OF THE BISHOP - STORTFORD UNION Volume 03A Page 120.

In 1861, William Palmer (68) Tallow Chandler employing 5 men, was still in Bridge Street, with Martha Palmer (33), Mary Palmer (25), Amelia Palmer (19) and one Servant, Sarah Handscomb (19). William Palmer Jnr (36) Chandler's Clerk, Widower, was a Lodger in Windhill, Bishop's Stortford.

Mary Henrietta Palmer died at 30, in 1865 D Quarter in THE BISHOP STORTFORD UNION Volume 03A Page 149.

William Palmer Jnr died at 43 in 1867 S Quarter in OF THE BISHOP STORTFORD UNION Volume 03A Page 164.

In 1871, William Palmer (78) Tallow Chandler was still in Bridge Street with daughter Martha Palmer (43) and one Servant, Mary Wood (21).

1840 letter from London to Bishop's Stortford businessman and father of six surfaces 180 years later – in New Zealand
William Palmer died at 84 on 8 Aug 1877 (S Quarter in BISHOPS STORTFORD Volume 03A Page 172) and was buried on 13 Aug 1877, at St Michael’s Church, Bishop's Stortford. Probate was granted on 22 Feb 1878, with the sole Beneficiary being, Henry Staines Wilton, husband of his youngest daughter, Amelia.

In 1881, Martha Palmer (52) was living in Great Dunmow in the household of Henry Wilton, her sister Amelia's father-in-law. 

In 1891, Martha Palmer (63) was living in New Street, Great Dunmow, with Henry Wilton's widow (his second wife), Ann.

And in 1901, Martha Palmer (72) was still living with Ann Wilton.

Martha Palmer died at 81, in 1909 J Qtr in DUNMOW Vol 04A Page 415.

Champion & Wilton Saddlers and Harness Makers

Bridge Street, Bishop's Stortford
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Bill Boaden - geograph.org.uk/p/6410237

Henry Staines Wilton, (bap. 27 Sep 1840 at St Giles, Mountnessing), son of Henry Wilton and Sarah Staines, Harness Maker, married Amelia Palmer, daughter of William Palmer and Henrietta Crabb of Bridge Street, Bishop's Stortford at St Michael, Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire, on 4 Aug 1868. Witnesses were the bride's father, William Palmer, the bridegroom's parents, Henry and Sarah Wilton and Martha Palmer, the bride's older sister.

This looks like a 'beneficial match' for Henry, because Amelia's Great Western Railway shares passed to her husband on their marriage. This is, of course, before the Married Women's Property Act 1882, when anything a woman owned, became her husband's by default, effectively becoming dowry.

Henry Staines Wilton was my 1st cousin, four times removed. 

Henry Staines Wilton and Amelia Palmer had five children:
  1. William Palmer Wilton b. 19 Sep 1869, bap. 28 Nov 1869 at St Michael's, Bishop's Stortford
  2. Mary Henrietta Wilton, bap. 30 Apr 1871 in Bishop's Stortford
  3. Olive Martha Wilton b. 25 Dec 1872, bap. 28 Feb 1873 in Bishop's Stortford. (Olive Martha Wilton, artist, died, aged 45, on 14 Apr 1918 in Ringwood, Hampshire. She is not buried with the family.)
  4. John Staines Wilton bap. 24 Apr 1874 in Bishop's Stortford. (John Staines Wilton didn't marry either. He died on 6 May 1936.)
  5. Margaret Staines Wilton b. 1877 in the district of St. George Hanover Square. (Margaret also remained single. She was buried, on 31 Dec 1957, in Hampstead Cemetery, with her parents and brothers.)
In 1861, Henry Staines Wilton (20) had been staying with his grandparents, Thomas Staines and Sally Hockley at Lord Peters (Sir William Petre) Alms Houses, Stone Field, Ingatestone, Chelmsford. He then set up business next door to his future father-in-law, in Bridge Street, Bishop's Stortford.

By 1871, Henry Staines Wilton (30), Saddler and Harness Maker, Employing 2 men, 2 apprentices and 1 boy in Bridge Street, Bishop's Stortford; Amelia Wilton (29), William P Wilton (1), Mary H Wilton (0). The household was completed with William Thorman (15) Saddler Apprentice; Martha Cornell (24) General Servant and Elizabeth Kitchener (16) Nurse.

As you can see from the location of the birth of their fifth child in 1877 (the same year that Amelia's father died in Bishop's Stortford), they had moved into London. This was because, in 1875, Henry Staines Wilton had bought into an established saddlery company in Oxford Street and became associated with Henry Champion, and from the merger of the names of its two owners, the Champion & Wilton brand officially appeared. [Source]

"Champion and Wilton [its predecessors, clearly] were founded in 1780 and had premises in Oxford Street, opposite Selfridges, in London’s West End. At one time they employed over one hundred saddlers making saddles, harness and other saddlery items and became, as holders of the Royal Warrant, the most highly respected firm in the country and I don’t doubt that many a stately home will still have a Champion and Wilton saddle tucked away somewhere in their tack room." - Keith Jenkin, SMSQF of Minster Saddlery

In The London Gazette of 4 January 1878, there was a notice regarding a Patent application: Henry Staines Wilton, of Bishop's Stortford, in the county of Herts, Saddler, for an invention of "improvements in the construction of saddles and saddle girths."—Dated 24th December, 1874. Then in 1879: 

In addition to the quality of the product, the main peculiarity that distinguished the saddles of this brand, owed much to the invention made in 1879 by Henry Wilton, who patented the well-known safety system, still in use and much appreciated today, which represented a technical revolution. 

In their time, it is said that Champion & Wilton held Royal Warrants to Queen Victoria, King Edward VII, King George V, King George VI, Queen Elizabeth II, and the Duke of Edinburgh, as well as to the German Emperor, Queen Maud of Norway and Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands. 

A neighbouring firm of saddlers, Samuel Blackwell, also long-established, was taken over by Champion & Wilton in the 1880s. 

At the time of daughter, Mary Henrietta Wilton's marriage to Augustus Percival Bartley (of the equally top-notch Bartley & Sons, Military and Hunting Bootmakers, of 493, Oxford Street), on 11 Aug 1894, at St Michael's Church, Bray, Berkshire, the Wilton family resided at the rather stately Stafferton Lodge, Braywick Road, Maidenhead

In 1891, the family were living at Braywick, High Town Road, Bray, Cookham, Berkshire with Henry S Wilton (50) Sadler & Harness Maker; Amelia Wilton (49), Olive Martha Wilton (18), John S Wilton (17) Saddlers Apprentice; Margaret Wilton (14), along with Sarah Asbridge (28) Cook from Margaret Roding and Kate Maydwell (23) Housemaid from Hornchurch, Essex. William P Wilton (21) Sadler, was that year [so far unaccountably] a Visitor in a household in Wanstead, Essex, along with three female servants. 

Fake news is not a new thing: Apparently, according to this document (PDF), in Vol IV No 5 of 'Saddlery and Harness' November 1894, a spurious claim appears, "p.101 Notable Members of the Trade: Mr H S Wilton (Champion and Wilton) Owner of Champion and Wilton. At 457/459 Oxford Street. One of the leading West End saddlery firms. Made Queen Victoria's first saddle when HSW was only 19 years old, some 63 years ago." [i.e. 1831] Complete and utter horse poop, of course, like so many family stories, and you have to laugh, as he wasn't even born until 1840! My feeling is the Oxford Street company that later became Champion & Wilton probably did make Queen Victoria's first saddle. It was Henry Staines Wilton's personal involvement that got tacked (pun intended) on as an embellishment to aggrandize himself.

In 1901, the family had moved back into town to 29, St Johns Wood Park, in the affluent community of Hampstead, where we find Henry S Wilton (60) Sadler & Harness Maker; Amelia Wilton (59), William P Wilton (31) Sadler & Harness Maker; Olive M Wilton (28), John S Wilton (27) Sadler & Harness Maker; Margaret S Wilton (24), along with Mary J Howlett (23) Cook from Norfolk and Annie Fosbury (21) Housemaid, from Maidenhead.

In 1911, still at 29, St Johns Wood Park, Hampstead, were Henry Staines Wilton (70) Sadler & Harness Maker; Amelia Wilton (69), Olive Martha Wilton (37) Artist; John Staines Wilton (36) Sadler & Harness Maker; Margaret Wilton (33) attended by three servants: Emma Fosbury (61) Widow, Cook Housekeeper; Ellen Gorey (37) Parlourmaid and Alice Fordham (24) Housemaid. The original census schedule also confirms that the couple had been married for 43 years and had five children, all then still living.

The Rebuilding of Oxford Street

"Nos. 453–459 (odd) Oxford Street and Nos. 22 and 23 North Audley Street, a small but elegant set of shops with flats over, were designed by Herbert Read and Robert Falconer Macdonald and built by Holloway Brothers in 1900–2 (Plate 46b). The client was E. H. Wilton of Champion and Wilton, saddlers, of Nos. 457 and 459 Oxford Street. (There was nobody with the initials  E. H. Wilton, so I assume this is H. S. Wilton and an error.) The building had three storeys towards North Audley Street and five on to Oxford Street. The ground floor was of Doulting stone, the upper storeys of red brick with stone dressings, and the style a picturesque and effective Arts and Crafts treatment." This tells us where the Champion and Wilton premises were, on the diagonally opposite corner to where Selfridges was later built. The building is long gone and replaced, with currently, a branch of Zara on that corner

Henry Staines Wilton died on 31 May 1915 and his funeral took place on Thursday 3 Jun 1915. He is interred in Hampstead Cemetery (Camden) grave reference WE/222. He left his fortune to his two sons, William Palmer Wilton and John Staines Wilton, saddlers, and his son-in-law, Augustus Percival Bartley, bootmaker. The Probate record shows that he left £57,256 11s 4d, which is worth just shy of six million pounds today (£5,925,591 in 2020).

Amelia Wilton died four years later, aged 77 and was buried, on 17 Dec 1919, in Hampstead Cemetery, along with her late husband. 

Monday 17 April 2023

Charles Palmer and Mary Amelia Oxford

Maker Church
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © jeff collins - geograph.org.uk/p/3634359

Charles Palmer, son of John Palmer and Esther Collins, married Mary Amelia Oxford, daughter of John Oxford and Elizabeth Lang, at St Mary's and St Julian's ChurchMaker, Cornwall on 17 Apr 1835

Charles and Mary had seven children:
  1. Esther Elizabeth Palmer b. 27 Mar 1836, bap. 12 Jun 1836 at Buckwell Lane Rehoboth Chapel -Independent, Plymouth.
  2. Benjamin Charles Palmer b. 1838 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 387. (No baptism and no further records found.)
  3. James Lang Palmer b. 1840 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 371, bap. 11 Oct 1844 at St Andrew's Church, Plymouth
  4. Edward Oxford Palmer b. 1844 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 409, bap. 11 Oct 1844 at St Andrew's Church, Plymouth
  5. Elizabeth Colwill Palmer b. 1846 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 378, bap. 7 Oct 1846 at St Andrew's Church, Plymouth, died aged 1, in 1848 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 245
  6. Charles Palmer b. 1848 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 365
  7. Mary Palmer b. 17 November 1848 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 365, reputedly born at 16 Catte Street, Plymouth.
It's clear that the last two were twins. On James and Edward's baptism, Charles' occupation in listed as Labourer. On Elizabeth Colwill's baptism, he is listed as a Porter and the family's address as Catte Street.

In 1841, Charles Palmer (25) was living in York Street, Plymouth St Andrew with Mary Palmer (25), Ester Palmer (5), Benjn Palmer (3), James Palmer (1) and a Margert Charter (20). All spellings as (badly) written/transcribed.

In 1851, Charles Parmer (sic) (39) Sub Bailliff (sic) with birthplace suggested as Ionkley (sic), Lancashire - there is a Charles Palmer born in Hinckley, Leicestershire - was living in Vauxhall Street, Charles The Martyr, Plymouth with wife Mary Parmer (39) from Devonport, Devonshire; Benjamin Parmer (13), Edward Parmer (11), James Parmer (7) - clearly they have transposed James and Edward's ages - Charles Parmer (2) and Mary Parmer (2). 

In 1861, Charles Talmer (sic - this is certainly a transcription error) (48) Tanner and Mary Talmer (sic) Wife of Tanner are still living in Vauxhall Street with the twins, Charles (12) and Mary (12), as well as Esther Talmer (70) from Winchester, Hampshire, Widowed, 'Tanner's Mother', Edmund Drake (3) - daughter Esther's step-son - and William Barry (0) Boarder. Charles' father, John Palmer, who had died in 1855, had been a Tanner, so it would appear that Charles had taken over his trade (or at least attempted to do so).

Mary Amelia Palmer died, aged 55, in 1867 M Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 208 and was buried in Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.

There is a Charles Palmer (age estimated to 61), Widowed, Porter, birthplace Plymouth, Devonshire, listed in Charles, Devon in 1871.

Charles Palmer died, aged 61, in 1874 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 170. He is also buried in Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.