Inherited Craziness
A place to share all the nuts found on my family tree

Showing posts with label Goodman. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Goodman. Show all posts

Friday, 23 April 2021

Edward Green and Eliza Goodman

St. Matthew's Church, Bethnal Green
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Dr Neil Clifton -

Edward Green and Eliza Goodman have proved to be a slippery pair, but if you read the dialogue that has come straight out of their mouths in this report of their dodgy practices, then you'd almost believe this was deliberate. 

With common enough surnames such as Green and Goodman, you'd think there would be too many records to be able to identify relevant ones, but in fact there is nothing. No marriage during their lifetimes - not in Essex, not in London, not in the world - between an Edward Green and an Eliza Goodman. Would we be surprised if this pair hadn't bothered to churchify their union? Probably not. 

It would appear though that they had five lovely daughters: 
  1. Eliza Green born in the second quarter of 1841 in Bethnal Green, mother's maiden surname Goodman. This looks like the child on the 1841 census. 
  2. Emma Green born 1847 (there is a birth registered in the 3rd quarter, in Bethnal Green, with mother's maiden surname given as Goodwin.)
  3. Mary Ann Green born 3 Jul 1849, bap. 29 Jul 1849 at St Matthew's, Bethnal Green. There was no civil birth registration for Mary Ann.
  4. Sarah Green b. 15 May 1854, bap. 11 Jun 1854 at Christ Church, Stepney.
  5. Eliza Louisa Green born 21 Mar 1858 in St George in the East (Mother's maiden surname Goodman.) Bap. 18 Apr 1858 at Christ Church, Jamaica Street, Stepney. Died, aged 13, in 1871 in Mile End.
So, it's only through the records of the 5th child that we can confirm with any confidence that Eliza's surname was Goodman. With the information from the 1851 census that she was purportedly from Braintree, there is a potential record of an Eliza Goodman born 8 Jan 1823, bap. 7 Sep 1823 at St Mary's, Bocking, Essex to William Goodman and Ann Stubbing (m. 1 Jan 1818). Maybe.

Edward Green was purportedly born in Shoreditch, in 1819, but I can find no record that I could identify as being convincingly relevant for his birth.

In 1841, in Anglesea Street, St Matthew, Bethnal Green, there's a weird census entry of an Edward Green (20), Cabinet Maker, not born in the county and, living with him are an Elizabeth (2) and Elizabeth (1 month). This might make sense if the first Elizabeth was 20, but it doesn't look like a mis-transcription. And Elizabeth isn't Eliza. Given the other details, I'm pretty sure this is them.

At the time of Mary Ann's baptism in 1849 they were living in Scott Street, Bethnal Green

In 1851, still living in Scott Street, Bethnal Green, we find Edward Green (32), Cabinet Maker, born in Shoreditch, with Eliza Green (28), born in Braintree, Essex, and daughter Emma Green (3). Where was Mary Ann? 

Eliza born 1841, does not appear on the census again. There is a death of an Eliza Green, aged 8 in 1850 in Bethnal Green that would correspond.

At the time of Eliza Louisa Green's baptism in 1858, the family's address is given as Chapel Street, St George in the East, which was later renamed Tait Street. We know they were already at the The King and Queen public house in 1858.

In 1861, at 25, Mary Street (same place: on the corner with Tait Street), St George in the East, there is Edward Green (40), Publican, Eliza (38), Emma (13), Mary (12), Sarah (6) and Eliza (3), as well as a Harriet Blundell (12), visitor.

Edward Green died on 22 Jun 1870, aged 50, from liver and kidney disease. 

Daughter Mary Ann, who had married in 1867, had also died in 1870.

In 1871, at Tait Street, St George in the East (still the King and Queen pub), Eliza Green (48), Widow, Licenced Victualler, is joined by now married daughter, Emma Horn (22), Barmaid, John Horn (23), Plumber, Sarah Green (17), Eliza Green (13), Eliza Thompson (2), granddaughter, Emma Horn (2), granddaughter, Edward J Horn (0), grandson, and Emily R Slade (14), General Servant.

The East London Observer in August 1875 lists Eliza Green as the outgoing licensee at the King and Queen. In 1881, Eliza is living with her daughter Sarah and her husband, Alfred James Lynch, at the Duke of Norfolk public house in Mile End Old Town. There is a death of an Eliza Green, aged 67, in 1890.

Sunday, 30 August 2020

The King and Queen pub, St George in the East

Chapel Street, St. George in the East was later renamed Tait Street (although the street doesn't exist at all now - current Tait Street is a completely different location). The King and Queen Public house, long since demolished, stood on the corner of Tait Street and Mary Street. You can quite clearly see the area referred to as 'a yard in the rear' of the premises where events took place.

Edward Green, one of my 3x great-grandfathers, originally a cabinet maker, was landlord of the King and Queen public house in St George in the East - former civil parish in Shadwell, north of Wapping in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets - from the 1850's until his death, in 1870, at age 50, from liver and kidney disease (one can't help wondering if he'd been rather regularly sampling his own stock) when his wife, Eliza Goodman, apparently from Braintree in Essex, then became landlady of the said pub for a further five years.

More on the couple and their children: Edward Green and Eliza Goodman

On the 1861 Census the family are listed as living at 25, Mary Street, St George in the East and, in 1871, the address for his widow and family is given as 51 Tait Street. This was useful to determine that these are actually the same place, with the pub (marked P.H.) located on the corner of those two streets.

Anyway, it would seem from the newspaper report I've discovered (see below) that Edward Green was the subject of a sting operation, authorised right from the top in Scotland Yard. (If you're going to do something, aim high!)

Fascinating to read dialogue that came straight out of the mouths of these ancestors, even if they do sound, shall we say, a bit on the rough side.  

Sunday opening I can forgive him for. That's not even a crime now.

Trying to dob his missus in for it though, puleeez nooooo ....

From The Morning Chronicle of Monday, November 8, 1858.


Edward Green, the landlord of the King and Queen public-house, in Chapel Street, St. George’s-in-the-East, appeared at the Thames Police-court, on Saturday, on a police information charged with unlawfully opening his house for the sale of ale, beer and spirituous liquors on Sunday morning last, during the hours prohibited by law.

Richard Blanks, a police-constable, 81 K, stated that he was directed by Mr. Superintendent Howie, of the K division, to detect the defendant, who was in the practice of supplying people with beer and spirits on Sunday, during the whole of the day, while other houses were closed. He went to the house in plain clothes, dressed as a waterman, and was accompanied by Mrs. Randall, the female searcher at the station-house adjoining the Thames Police-court, who was the wife of a police-constable. On reaching the defendant’s house Mrs. Randall knocked at the front door, and waited some time without its being answered, and he said, “Come old lady, we shall not be served with anything here.” The door was then opened by the defendant, who narrowly scrutinised them both, and after looking at the trousers of witness, which were not blue [a laugh], said, “You will do; have what you like,” and directed them to a side door, which was opened, and they were admitted into the house and directed to a yard in the rear, in which was a private bar fitted up. There were 20 men and women in front of the small bar, and they were served with rum, gin, ale, beer, and tobacco. He saw others admitted at the side door, and let out after they were served at the back door. Mrs. Randall asked for two pennyworth of gin and cold water, which was supplied to her. He then called the landlady on one side, and told her she was doing wrong. She said, “What of it?” He then asked for the landlord, and told him what he had seen and he said it was a bad job.

The defendant, in reply to the charge, said that he could not contradict what was said. He was not aware what was done in the house. His wife did it all, and admitted people into the house without his knowledge.

Mr. Yardley: Where was the landlord – the defendant, I mean?

Blanks: He was at the front door. He directed me to the side door.

Mr Yardley: To be sure; you said so before. Don’t tell me, Mr. Green, you were not aware of it. It is a most flagrant case.

Sir Richard Mayne KCB (27 November 1796 – 26 December 1868) was a barrister and the joint first Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis, the head of the London Metropolitan Police (1829–1868).
Inspector Hayes, of the K division, said repeated complaints had been made by licenced victuallers and beer shop keepers, who complied with the law, of the practice adopted by the defendant, who stood at the front door to reconnoitre, while persons were admitted at the side door. Mr. Howie, the superintendent, had made a special complaint to Sir Richard Mayne, the Chief Commissioner of Police, and had received his permission to adopt the means of detection used on Sunday morning last. Mr. Howie intended to be present to explain to the magistrate why he adopted the unusual step of allowing a woman to accompany the constable, but was obliged to leave the court to meet the commissioners.

Mr. Yardley: There is no harm in the means adopted to detect the defendant. No trap was laid. Mr. Howie was perfectly justified in doing what he has done. There is nothing illegitimate in the mode of finding out what was going on. I would not convict if a trap had been laid, but it appears there were 20 persons in the house. I shall deviate from the ordinary practice where a first offence has been proved. I generally treat a first offence lightly, but I fine the defendant £3 and costs, because he has broken the law systematically.

The fine was instantly paid.

[£3 in 1858 is equivalent to about £375 in 2020. Source.]

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