Edward Oxford Palmer and Charlotte Emma Gloyne

The Melbourne Inn, Plymouth
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Derek Harper - geograph.org.uk/p/1777650
This pub on the corner of Cecil Street (left) and Wyndham Street, with its green glazed tiles, one of the toughest pubs in Plymouth, has been recommended for listing. Originally built in the 1700s, this Stonehouse pub was later named after British Prime Minister Lord Melbourne.

Edward Oxford Palmer, Seaman, son of Charles Palmer and Mary Oxford, married Charlotte Emma Gloyne, daughter of Samuel Pascoe Gloyne and Emma Jane Coombes at the The Church of the Holy Trinity on 9 Mar 1873. (The church was destroyed during the Blitz in 1941 and demolished.)

The couple had one child:

1. Charles Edward Samuel Palmer b. 9 Sep 1874 (GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 248), bap. 4 Oct 1874, in the Parish of Charles, Plymouth. (Charles Church was destroyed during the night of March 21st/22nd 1941.) The family's address was 8 Devonshire Street, Plymouth and Edward's profession was again listed as Seaman.

Edward Oxford Palmer, born 31 May 1844, had enlisted in the Royal Navy on 25 Apr 1859, shortly before his 15th birthday, as a Boy 2nd Class. At that time he was 5 ft and ½ inch, with a Fresh complexion, Light brown hair and Grey eyes. He had a scar on the left side of his chin and weighed 110 lbs. The ship on which he entered service was HMS Impregnable. He remained in the service until 1882, achieving the rank of Petty officer first class.

In 1881, living at 67, Cecil Street, Plymouth, were Edward Palmer (36) Quarter master royal navy; Charlotte Palmer (27) and son Charles Palmer (6).

Although, in 1891, Edward O Palmer (46) General Labourer was living in Roath, Cardiff, Wales, with Charlotte A Palmer (36) and son Charles (16) Fitter's Apprentice. (Charlotte's sister Emma Jane married in Roath.)

By 1901, the family had returned to Plymouth and were living in Alexandra Road, Ford, Devonport, with Edward Palmer (56) General Labourer; Charlotte Palmer (46), Charles Palmer (26) Steam Engine Fitter and Emma Gloyne (74) Widow, Former Monthly Nurse, Charlotte's mother in the household.

In 1902, son Charles Edward Palmer married Alice Amy Gamblen.

In 1911 and still living in Devonport, were Edward O Palmer (66) Naval Pensioner and Charlotte Palmer (56). Son, Charles Palmer (36) Engine Fitter at Government Dockyard, was also living in Devonport, with wife Alice Palmer (36) and Cyril Gamblen (5), inexplicably listed as a Niece (not Nephew). 

Edward Oxford Palmer died in 1913, aged 69. (GRO Reference: 1913 D Quarter in DEVONPORT Volume 05B Page 392.)

(Then Edward and Charlotte's son, Charles Edward Palmer also died, on 17 Apr 1915, aged just 40 (GRO Reference: 1915 J Quarter in DEVONPORT Volume 05B Page 444). Probate was granted to Alice Palmer on 8 Jun 1915. The couple do not appear to have had any children. Alice Amy Palmer does not appear to have remarried and is listed in Plymouth in 1921 and again in 1939. She died, in Plymouth, in 1969, in what will have been her 95th year.)

In 1921, Charlotte Palmer (66) Widow was living at 5, St Paul Street, East Stonehouse, close to her sister, Maria Mullarkey in Admiralty Street and just a couple of doors from Margaret Stone, whose son, Frederick Thomas, married her niece, Kathleen Mullarkey, in 1923. There was quite a gathering of family and more so when my grandparents moved into 36 Admiralty Street.

Charlotte Palmer died, at 75, in 1930. (GRO Reference: 1930 M Quarter in EAST STONEHOUSE Volume 05B Page 401.)

Edmund Drake and Esther Elizabeth Palmer

Plymouth : Plymouth Gin Distillery
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Lewis Clarke - geograph.org.uk/p/1185248
The Plymouth Gin Distillery (the Black Friars Distillery) is the only gin distillery located in Plymouth in what was once a Dominican Order monastery built in 1431 and opens on to what is now Southside Street. It has been in operation since 1793.

Edmund Drake (b. 7 Oct 1832), Seaman, upon marriage, said he was the son of Edmund Drake, Tailor (actually he was the illegitimate son of Mary Drake, Tailoress), first married Eliza Dixon at the Parish church, Stoke Damerel on 17 Nov 1857. Their son, Edmund George Drake was born on 21 Jan 1858 (1858 M Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 285) and baptised at Stoke Damerel on 4 Feb 1858. However, Eliza Drake died in that same quarter, aged 22 (GRO Ref: 1858 M Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 231).

Edmund Drake, Widower, Seaman, then married Esther Elizabeth Palmer, daughter of Charles Palmer and Mary Amelia Oxford at Holy Trinity Church, Plymouth on 7 Dec 1860. (The Anglican Church of the Holy Trinity was in Southside Street/Friars Lane, The Barbican, Plymouth. It no longer exists.) Edmund Drake gave his address at this time as HMS Jason (1859).

Edmund and Esther had at least a further six children:

1. Edward Charles Drake b. 1861 S Qtr in PLYMOUTH Vol 05B Page 239
2. Florence Esther Drake b. 1867 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 252. Died, aged 1, in 1869 S Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 181. Buried at Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.
3. Mary Amelia Drake b. 1869 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Vol 05B Page 247
4. Edith Esther Drake b. 1873 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Vol 05B Page 239
5. Annie Eliza Drake b. 1875 J Qtr in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 342
6. Eliza Ellen Drake b. 1876 S Qtr in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 329. Died, aged 1, in 1877 S Qtr in STOKE DAMEREL Vol 05B Page 200

In 1861, Edmund and Esther Drake aren't listed anywhere, however, Edmund Drake (3), Edmund's son from his first marriage, was boarding with Charles and Mary Palmer, Esther's parents, in Vauxhall Street, Plymouth.

In 1865, there is a record of Shipping agreements and crew lists, suggesting that Edmund Drake (32), birthplace Jersey, was serving on a Merchant ship named Hantoon that departed from Wexford, Ireland.

In 1871, Esther Drake (35) was in Vauxhall Street, Charles, Plymouth, with [Edmund] George Drake (13), Edward Drake (9), Mary Drake (1) and her brother, James Palmer (31) Porter. Edmund was presumably at sea.

In 1881, Edmund Drake (48) Coal Tipper was a boarder in the household of William Brooks (31) Railway Guard at 6, Inchmarnock Street, Roath, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales. Edmund Drake was listed as being from Plymouth, Devon, which is probably, simply, what his landlord assumed. Meanwhile, Esther Drake (44) Sailor's Wife, was then residing at 27, Rendle Street, Plymouth with her son Edward Drake (19) Iron Moulder; Mary Drake (11), Edith Drake (7), Annie Drake (5) and Alfred Nelson (1) Boarder.

In 1891, Edmund Drake (59) Pensioner from Jersey, Channel Islands, was living at 10, Moira Street, Cardiff with Esther Drake (56), Edward Drake (28) Iron Moulder; Mary Drake (21); Edith Drake (19); Annie Drake (16); Emma Drake (29) and granddaughters, Esther Drake (3) and Gladys Drake (1).

In 1901, Edmund Drake (69) Boxman Coal Tipper from St Helier, Jersey, was living at 12, Seymour Street, Roath, Cardiff, with wife Esther Drake (65) and granddaughter, Esther Drake (13).

Esther Elizabeth Drake died at 72 in 1907 S Qtr in CARDIFF Vol 11A 149.

In 1911, Edmund Drake (80) Widowed, Father-in-law from St Helier, Jersey, was living in the household of Fred and Annie Silby at 30 Romilly Road, Cardiff. (Annie Silby, of course, being Annie Eliza Drake, as was.)

In 1921, Edmund Drake (90) Widower, Father-in-law, Able Seaman Retired HM Navy, from Jersey, Channel Islands, was still living with his daughter and son-in-law, Fred and Annie Silby, at 67, Forrest Road, Cardiff.

Edmund Drake died at 91 in 1922 M Qtr in CARDIFF Vol 11A Page 707.

Edward Charles Drake and Emma Jane Gloyne

Former entrance to Roath Basin, Cardiff
cc-by-sa/2.0 - © Chris Allen - geograph.org.uk/p/6404417

Edward Charles Drake, son of Edmund Drake and Esther Elizabeth Palmer, married Emma Jane Gloyne, daughter of Samuel Pascoe Gloyne and Emma Jane Coombes, on 12 Jul 1886 in Roath, Glamorgan, Wales. 

Edward Charles Drake's mother, Esther Elizabeth Palmer, was the older sister of Edward Oxford Palmer, who was married to Emma Jane's older sister, Charlotte Emma Gloyne. So, Charlotte's husband was Emma's husband's uncle - or Emma's husband was Charlotte's husband's nephew. The two couples' respective children will have been double-cousins, once removed and once not, I think. Working out family relationships just got very complicated!

Edward and Emma had eight children:

1. Esther Kathleen Drake b. GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 330
2. Gladys Emma Drake b. GRO Reference: 1889 S Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 334
3. John Gloyne Drake b. 6 May 1891, GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 342. Died 4 Jul 1915 (see below).
4. Francis Oxford Drake b. GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 396
5. Helen Palmer Drake b. 7 February 1895 in Plymouth. (No GRO record.)
6. Fred Silby Drake b. GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 16. Died, aged 4, in GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in DEVONPORT Volume 05B Page 253
7. Constance Edith Drake b. GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in BRISTOL Volume 06A Page 8
8. Florence May Drake b. GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in EAST STONEHOUSE Volume 05B Page 255

In 1891, Edward Drake (28) Iron Moulder, Emma Drake (29) and their first two daughters, Esther (3) and Gladys (1) were living in the household of Edward's parents, Edmund and Esther Drake in Moira Street, Cardiff.

In 1901, Edward C Drake (39) Iron & Brass Founder, was resident in Durnford Street, East Stonehouse, with wife Emma J Drake (40), Gladys E Drake (11), John G Drake (9), Francis O Drake (8), Helen P Drake (6) and Constance E Drake (2). Eldest daughter, Esther Drake (13) was staying with her grandparents, Edmund and Esther Drake, in Seymour Street, Roath.

In 1911, Edward Drake (49) Iron and Brass Founder, was still in Plymouth with wife Emma Drake (50) and daughters, Gladys Drake (21), Helen Drake (17), Constance Drake (12) and Florence (9). Esther Kathleen had married in 1906 and was living in North End, Buckland, Portsmouth; John Drake (19) Stoker, was in Chatham, Kent; haven't yet located Francis.

Emma Drake died, in 1912, age given as 51 - she was 54 (GRO Reference: 1912 S Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 276).

Son John Drake died at HMS Vivid (shore establishment 1890), the Royal Navy barracks at Devonport. John Drake had joined the Royal Navy, at 18, on 9 July 1909, at which time he was 5 ft 3½ in with a 33¾ inch chest, light brown hair, light brown eyes and a fair complexion. At the time of his death he was assigned to Vivid II, the Stokers and Engine Room Artificers School in Devonport. The note on his naval record states that he was DD (Discharged Dead) on 4 July 1915 in Sick Quarters, Devonport Depot as result of cycle accident. Inquest verdict:- Accidental death through cycle accident. This was only weeks after his cousin, Charles Edward Palmer, Engine Fitter at the Government Dockyard, Devonport, also died, on 17 Apr 1915.

Edward Charles Drake (55) married Helen or Ellen Saull (48) on 23 Dec 1916, in Roath, Glamorganshire, Wales. 

In 1921, Edward Drake (59) Iron Moulder and wife listed as Norah Drake (54) from Plymouth, Devon, were living at 41, Harold Street, Roath, Cardiff.

Edward Charles Drake died, at 74, in 1935 (GRO Reference: 1935 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B  Page 403).